This is awesome; thanks so much. My main problem is getting the DDT and the timing to coincide, but these are very helpful posts! The bread is currently bricklike but tasty. Aiming to get a little more lift, which requires a bit more babysitting, I think.
This is so great. I've by trial and error sort of fallen into a similar strategy for my own starter, so it's great to see it formalized and confirm what I was discovering on my own, and have a more reliable & proven method for it!
This is just the post I needed! My starter has always seemed a little sluggish. A few weeks ago I started refreshing it daily using a bit of rye and have seen an improvement. I look forward to trying your method. Thanks!
1) I've found it very helpful to use a food process to mix a starter refreshment. I find it leads to a more active starter. I hypothesize that this is because it incorporates more air into the dough. I've read several places that yeast (and bacteria?) reproduce more easily when they have oxygen.
2) I'm surprised that you use stiff starter to decrease the sourness. I have heard from many people...but not tested...that they get a milder taste with liquid starter.
3) I have decreased the amount of starter I include in refreshments from my training based on third-hand advice from Didier Rosada. I now use 100% bread flour, 50% water, 10%-20% starter for a 12-hour refreshment cycle. I have been very happy with the results.
This is a great reminder. I took my starter with me at Christmas and made wonderful loaves. They've been dismal since returning home. I'm sure it was because my traveling starter was tiny and had to be refreshed and grown. It turned into a vigorous happy starter in a day our two. My starter that stayed home needs the same boost
When I was struggling last year I had happened upon a method with a stiff levain and it was the first thing that performed the way I wanted it to. Now I'm superstitious and I do an initial levain build at 100%, but then I still incorporate that into a 55% hydration firm starter, and twelve hours later I tear that up by hand, mix it into my flour mixture, and only then add water. I would 100% be here for a post comparing the performance of different levain hydrations and another post comparing levain percentages in bulk fermentation.
I'm also super lazy and even though our kitchen is cold I haven't once bothered warming the water before bulk fermentation. I just make a note of how much longer the dough takes to double when the kitchen is cold, and then I stick it in the fridge overnight. At some point I might need to be more careful with DDT and fermentation timing, but it's not like I'm going anywhere.
It’s a relatively new technique, but what are your thoughts on #KatzoomiBread’s (sourdough shokupan) technique for sourdough sweet breads? They made a stiff levain at 40% hydration along with a sweet levain of 2:2:2:1 flour, water, starter, and sugar and about a 3:5 ratio of sweet:stiff levain. The levain mix makes up a big portion of the dough, 317% in bakers %.
Andrew, I conducted the reviving starter method with the two fast and one slow feeding in a day. Did this three days. I was compelled the test my original starter (your dried starter) which I suspected was sickly with the interim starters that had the rye in it. I have yet to test the final maintenance starter (fed with only bread flour). In comparing three versions of starter my original “meek” starter aced the race in crumb and flavor. I did not expect this. It also was pleasingly sour, unlike the revived interim starters. Original starter was not fed for a week by the way. My question: a starter that comes out of fridge that has not been fed for a while, slumped, can bake perfectly good bread? Does a starter that has sat in fridge give more sour flavor, which I am after? What would you say is max time a starter can be in storage without feeding but will bake good bread? Thanks.
This is awesome; thanks so much. My main problem is getting the DDT and the timing to coincide, but these are very helpful posts! The bread is currently bricklike but tasty. Aiming to get a little more lift, which requires a bit more babysitting, I think.
Best headline ever!
This is so great. I've by trial and error sort of fallen into a similar strategy for my own starter, so it's great to see it formalized and confirm what I was discovering on my own, and have a more reliable & proven method for it!
This is just the post I needed! My starter has always seemed a little sluggish. A few weeks ago I started refreshing it daily using a bit of rye and have seen an improvement. I look forward to trying your method. Thanks!
Three items:
1) I've found it very helpful to use a food process to mix a starter refreshment. I find it leads to a more active starter. I hypothesize that this is because it incorporates more air into the dough. I've read several places that yeast (and bacteria?) reproduce more easily when they have oxygen.
2) I'm surprised that you use stiff starter to decrease the sourness. I have heard from many people...but not tested...that they get a milder taste with liquid starter.
3) I have decreased the amount of starter I include in refreshments from my training based on third-hand advice from Didier Rosada. I now use 100% bread flour, 50% water, 10%-20% starter for a 12-hour refreshment cycle. I have been very happy with the results.
Allen
This is a great reminder. I took my starter with me at Christmas and made wonderful loaves. They've been dismal since returning home. I'm sure it was because my traveling starter was tiny and had to be refreshed and grown. It turned into a vigorous happy starter in a day our two. My starter that stayed home needs the same boost
I know what do to with my refrigerated 50g stiff starter leftover from bagels! Perfect.
When I was struggling last year I had happened upon a method with a stiff levain and it was the first thing that performed the way I wanted it to. Now I'm superstitious and I do an initial levain build at 100%, but then I still incorporate that into a 55% hydration firm starter, and twelve hours later I tear that up by hand, mix it into my flour mixture, and only then add water. I would 100% be here for a post comparing the performance of different levain hydrations and another post comparing levain percentages in bulk fermentation.
I'm also super lazy and even though our kitchen is cold I haven't once bothered warming the water before bulk fermentation. I just make a note of how much longer the dough takes to double when the kitchen is cold, and then I stick it in the fridge overnight. At some point I might need to be more careful with DDT and fermentation timing, but it's not like I'm going anywhere.
It’s a relatively new technique, but what are your thoughts on #KatzoomiBread’s (sourdough shokupan) technique for sourdough sweet breads? They made a stiff levain at 40% hydration along with a sweet levain of 2:2:2:1 flour, water, starter, and sugar and about a 3:5 ratio of sweet:stiff levain. The levain mix makes up a big portion of the dough, 317% in bakers %.
Andrew, I conducted the reviving starter method with the two fast and one slow feeding in a day. Did this three days. I was compelled the test my original starter (your dried starter) which I suspected was sickly with the interim starters that had the rye in it. I have yet to test the final maintenance starter (fed with only bread flour). In comparing three versions of starter my original “meek” starter aced the race in crumb and flavor. I did not expect this. It also was pleasingly sour, unlike the revived interim starters. Original starter was not fed for a week by the way. My question: a starter that comes out of fridge that has not been fed for a while, slumped, can bake perfectly good bread? Does a starter that has sat in fridge give more sour flavor, which I am after? What would you say is max time a starter can be in storage without feeding but will bake good bread? Thanks.